It seems like a lot of guys on the bodybuilding.com forum are following ketogenic diets and lifting. Has anyone tried this and do you think that it is true that fats are actually the body's primary source of fuel and we have been wrong or confused all these years? I would think a balanced diet would be key, but things like that make me doubt what is proper as far as nutrition goes.
I had brought this up before and had some responses but I am going to mention it again. There was a huge debate on whether you can gain muscle in a calorie deficit. There was one long time member in particular who swears that you can gain muscle in a defict and has been doing so. I can see the picture of the guy and he is pretty big. So, does this warrant more research? I think he was saying that protein builds muscle not calories. Once again confused. If this is indeed true, then it would benefit me greatly since I can't seem to tolerate eating a lot, nor have the money to down a shit load of food every day.
I know some have chimed in on that one issue already, but I am interested to hear others' opinions on this as well. Thanks
Ketogenic diets and Nutrition In General
Moderators: Boss Man, cassiegose
Fat is a secondary source of energy. The body will use Carbs more often, before it uses Fat.
To be honest, Ketogenic diets involve eating almost screw all Carbs, possibly none at all for a month, and then Protein and Fat, which means Fat has to be stripped.
Frankly such a diet is inadvisable. Even a lot of BB don't do that these days, you can get 8% bf without having to go Carb or almost Carb free. Even most people at National Amateur level probably don't go Carb free for comps at any stage, just reduce portons and carb sources.
Most people running up to comps might have things like Oatmeal and Rice, maybe Broccoli, but cut loads of other stuff like Whole-grain Bread, Legume Carbs etc etc out of the equation.
Ketogenic diets will also create a lot of Ketones, which are a byproduct of Fat burning, and they will store in the blood. Frankly I don't htink such a diet is any good for anyone, or particularly healthy.
Unless you need 3% for a pro BB contest don't bother doing it.
Not only that if you accustom your body to have to source Fat constantly for energy over a 4 week period, you might confuse it about what it is meant to do with other things like Carbs, if it is forced to adapt in part to a new way of working.
You may get a strange reaction ot Carbs, when you get back on them, for the first few days. Whatever that is I do not know.
To be honest, Ketogenic diets involve eating almost screw all Carbs, possibly none at all for a month, and then Protein and Fat, which means Fat has to be stripped.
Frankly such a diet is inadvisable. Even a lot of BB don't do that these days, you can get 8% bf without having to go Carb or almost Carb free. Even most people at National Amateur level probably don't go Carb free for comps at any stage, just reduce portons and carb sources.
Most people running up to comps might have things like Oatmeal and Rice, maybe Broccoli, but cut loads of other stuff like Whole-grain Bread, Legume Carbs etc etc out of the equation.
Ketogenic diets will also create a lot of Ketones, which are a byproduct of Fat burning, and they will store in the blood. Frankly I don't htink such a diet is any good for anyone, or particularly healthy.
Unless you need 3% for a pro BB contest don't bother doing it.
Not only that if you accustom your body to have to source Fat constantly for energy over a 4 week period, you might confuse it about what it is meant to do with other things like Carbs, if it is forced to adapt in part to a new way of working.
You may get a strange reaction ot Carbs, when you get back on them, for the first few days. Whatever that is I do not know.
keto diets are hard to stick to and any devience from it and it won't work at all...they do work though but it didnlt for me and i won't do it again...not that i need to
fat isn't the primary energy source for the body but when carb storage is zero and you go into ketosis (the hardest part) so long as cals are high enough it can be...it's hardly a lifestyle though...most people want to go straight from shit eating toi this when they haven't got the basics of eating down and they'd get just as good results doing that then a keto diet...it's best kept when you really need to nail your body so you need to be fairly lean before you even do it
there has been cases of gaining muscle in a cal deficit but generally you can't and i wouldn't plan to gain muscle in one...simply saying protein builds muscle is ridiculous as then every 16yr old dickhead having 5 protein shakes a day would be huge
the bloke in the picture did he get big in a cal deficit or surplus???
the less cal's you are over maintenence the harder muscle will be to come by
there's plenty of other factors involved too though like training, recovery, where you are now bodywise etc
fat isn't the primary energy source for the body but when carb storage is zero and you go into ketosis (the hardest part) so long as cals are high enough it can be...it's hardly a lifestyle though...most people want to go straight from shit eating toi this when they haven't got the basics of eating down and they'd get just as good results doing that then a keto diet...it's best kept when you really need to nail your body so you need to be fairly lean before you even do it
there has been cases of gaining muscle in a cal deficit but generally you can't and i wouldn't plan to gain muscle in one...simply saying protein builds muscle is ridiculous as then every 16yr old dickhead having 5 protein shakes a day would be huge
the bloke in the picture did he get big in a cal deficit or surplus???
the less cal's you are over maintenence the harder muscle will be to come by
there's plenty of other factors involved too though like training, recovery, where you are now bodywise etc
Per day.Boss Man wrote:When you say 50-100 over maintenance, do you mean per meal, or per day? I'm assuming you mean per day.
I was reading this article and there was another fitness expert online that posts a lot of videos, was saying that you don't have to force feed tons of calories. That as you start lifting, your body's hunger will increase and you will naturally eat more and enough for what your body needs. As you gain more muscle the hunger once again will increase. In other words, they are saying to be intuitive and listen to when you become hungry and you will be fine. It sorta makes sense.
I was asking about the small amount over maintenance because I also read that you can eat less calories over maintenance and still gain muscle but it is much slower. They say some do that to avoid accumulating too much fat.
If it's per day, then yes you could do as you said.
You only need in opinion, about another 300 calories a day max on a bulk, between plateaus. When your body stalls on gains, it can only be training or diet that is the cause, and often people waste weeks trying differing workouts, with nothing to show for it, when in reality it's diet that often is the culprit, and should be revaluated first.
I say 300 a day, as a nice round 50 calories more per 6 meals, is fairly straightforward enough to do.
The problem some people get especially younger males, who aspire to be big, is they see guys talking about big 3,500+ calorie diets, and think they must do likewise.
However some guy with 6 months lifting experience, might have some decent gains, but might only be 155lbs and isn't ready for 3,500+ calories, therefore he risks, (depending on the calorie amount per day he starts to have), potentially as much as 1,000+ calories, that are not needed by the body and convert to excess, meaning when he eventually gets big, he could be packing another 4-5lbs of Fat he didn't need to have, and he'll find difficult to shed without muscle sacrifice.
It's a common mistake amongst the young and eager, sometimes not helped by big dudes, who get asked "how do you eat that much per day dude I'm struggling", then they tell a kid how to eat big calories per day, when it would be easier to say don't eat like me, you aint me, eat abc calories, in xyz way for now, and in time when you're much bigger, you'll be able to eat like me, when you need to.
So yeah, what you're saying makes sense. 100 more calories a day, could easily be a trigger for more growth. How much, and for how long it would happen I can't say.
You only need in opinion, about another 300 calories a day max on a bulk, between plateaus. When your body stalls on gains, it can only be training or diet that is the cause, and often people waste weeks trying differing workouts, with nothing to show for it, when in reality it's diet that often is the culprit, and should be revaluated first.
I say 300 a day, as a nice round 50 calories more per 6 meals, is fairly straightforward enough to do.
The problem some people get especially younger males, who aspire to be big, is they see guys talking about big 3,500+ calorie diets, and think they must do likewise.
However some guy with 6 months lifting experience, might have some decent gains, but might only be 155lbs and isn't ready for 3,500+ calories, therefore he risks, (depending on the calorie amount per day he starts to have), potentially as much as 1,000+ calories, that are not needed by the body and convert to excess, meaning when he eventually gets big, he could be packing another 4-5lbs of Fat he didn't need to have, and he'll find difficult to shed without muscle sacrifice.
It's a common mistake amongst the young and eager, sometimes not helped by big dudes, who get asked "how do you eat that much per day dude I'm struggling", then they tell a kid how to eat big calories per day, when it would be easier to say don't eat like me, you aint me, eat abc calories, in xyz way for now, and in time when you're much bigger, you'll be able to eat like me, when you need to.
So yeah, what you're saying makes sense. 100 more calories a day, could easily be a trigger for more growth. How much, and for how long it would happen I can't say.
Yeah, I mentioned this before but brother showed me a book and it was showing up near 4000 calories. I looked at this and said noo way. I did calorie calculations on the web and it showed me what I should eat to maintain weight. Once again I looked at that and it was still a little high. I know I still don't eat that much. So, what I am going to do is just eat whenever I am hungry but continue to eat the right foods while still focusing on getting a decent amount of protein. I will let you know if following this strategy works out for me.