Fat Acceptance Kooks Trashing the Late Jack LaLanne

[Boss Man]

Then it shouldn't. Let them walk around the store. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing to panda to seriously obese people. The more facilities and effort saving things you give them, the more they will like being obese.

Stop them having little buggies, so they walk. Make all the clothes bigger than XXL size, grey or beige, so they can't look nice unless they slim down.

Also I find it mildly amusing, when people say you can never get enough shops that sell large clothing, it's hard to buy clothes for someone size. Well then do something to make your size comparable, to a lot of other people that have less shopping issues, then you'll have less shopping issues too.

[scottgaran]

And worse yet, labeled a "hater!"

[Boss Man]

Okay I can agree with those sentiments regarding the clothes, I was a bit tongue in cheek with that one, but the buggies, I would still remove, becasue you could argue disabled people might need personalised wheeled transport, but being obese isn't a disability, so those buggies should be perhaps medically prescribed to people who qualify, like disabled people, or the elderly with hip or knee problems.

[Bonnie]

I was just talking with mom & apparently they have had those in a store called Zellers for years. Boss the fat people will win, I bet in a few years they will make being fat a disability.

[fit-fanatic-2025]

A lot of obese people are disabled. They have problems walking, and problems with there knees and tons of other health issues. I don't like this thread. It seems pretty negative.

[fit-fanatic-2025]

I don't think many people that can barely walk because they are so obese think it's fine and would choose that lifestyle. They have a hard time knowing the way out is the problem. It is discrimination to not make accomodations for people that can't walk or have problems with their health due to obesity! By allowing people to move about in a store instead of stuggle to barely walk, I think is a just human decency.

Compulsive eating is like addiction. I saw once where a high percentage of people that get gastric bypass surgery become addicts of another form after the surgery. I don't think judgemental actions is the answer to obesity.

[Boss Man]

A lot of obese people are disabled. They have problems walking, and problems with there knees and tons of other health issues. I don't like this thread. It seems pretty negative.

Respectfully they're not disabled if they are self inflicted issues. Those are reversible things in many instances, or partly reversible. If you have an autoimmune disease, chronic condition, gentic birth defect or have suffeed disability from something like a shooting or a car crash etc, then you're disabled.

Saying you can't walk when you're spine was irreversibly damaged in a car crash is legitimate. Saying you can't walk properly when you have muscular dystropy is legitimate. Saying you can't walk properly because you ate too much, slobbed about and got really fat for years is not legitimate.

Being 400lbs and not being able to walk properly isn't disability, it's misuse of your body, not something that isn't your fault becasue of natural or man made reasons.

Put it this way, someone in a wheelchair with MS, wouldn't like someone who's morbidly obese, trundling about in a special buggy like they do in America, telling them they're disabled. The difference would be, one is disabled, the other was lazy and disrespectful of the life they were born with and you can't say you're robbed of good health when it's self inflicted.

Some people are dead at birth. Some people never live beyond 3 years old. What life for them? Some people make it past 21 and end up morbidly obese. Yes sometimes factors like bullying and low self esteem make it so, but many obese people have no issues like that, they let it happen and expect their respective country to provide special facilities, medication and no lecturing about it, because they think they don't have to change, which is selfish and disrespectful not only to the pricelessness of life, but to all those people that are actually disabled or robbed of life when young.

[fit-fanatic-2025]

A disability means your disabled at the present moment, you don't have to be born with it, you don't have to have a certain reason for being disabled, you just have to have a disability.

Humans do a lot of self inflicting things, smoking, drinking, compulsive eating, bulemia, sun tanning, eating unhealthy without being obese, drug addicts etc.. All these things can cause diseases and high health care costs. If your going to complain about obesity and how it takes away from people that rightfully have a disability it seeems like you should include these issues as well to be excluded and not as high on the priority list from people that rightfully with disease through no fault of their own.


I guess we can just agree to disagree Boss.

[Boss Man]

I agree. Skin Cancer problems, Drug Addiciton etc etc, are self inflicted, but I would never called an Addict disabled. Therefore I wouldn't call people who are morbidly obese and therefore addicted to food, disabled either.

You're right though about a disability potentially being short-term too. The term can also be applied to things like Power systems as well, but that's a side issue of little relevance here, except to highlight the use of the word disabled, in relation to short term loss of function / power.

Humans however are programmed to be genetically lazy, but I'm not convinced they are genetically hotwired to gorge on food, as the bodies need for excessive consumption is caused by adaption of the metabolism I feel, when the person starts any kind of excessive food or gorging habits. The body starts to become addicted to anything like that, including Caffeine, Alcohol etc etc and shows withdrawal symptoms when deprived, like headaches, mood swings, shakes etc.

Addictions recondition the body and the way the body responds, to more frequent dosing of a stimulent or increased food consumption and are often reversible though depending on the severity of their effects, such effects re not alwyss partially or fully reversible themselves.

Another possible way to look at the disability factor, woudl be to do a simple test.

You'd get someone in a room with something like MS or Motor Neurone, who obviously would be in a wheelchair and someone who was very mordibly obese and in a special buggy and ask a cross-section of 100 people, to hold a yes or no card up, to indicate whether they thought the second person was also disabled.

I'd hazard a guess you'd get more no cards held up than yes ones and probably quite a few distainful faces and maybe the odd comment of disgust or disbelief too.

[fit-fanatic-2025]

That test does nothing for me Boss. I wouldn't want the average citizen to be the judge on what qualifies as a disability. Disdainful looks seems to me like prejudice and I wouldn't want people like that voting on if I had a disability. i would want it to be a well-informed person on obesity or whatever issue i had deciding fate on that issue. I don't mean all morbidly obese people have a disability, but some I would guess probably do. I think main questions that a person would ask to anybody would be are they mobile, can they work, what are their health problems, etc. The reason for the disability is secondary, the main issue is their present condition.

Addictions recondition the body and the way the body responds, to more frequent dosing of a stimulent or increased food consumption and are often reversible though depending on the severity of their effects, such effects re not alwyss partially or fully reversible themselves

Are you talking about drugs there not being always reversible? Or do you mean food too? Just a personal question nothing to do with our argument.

We do include those issues. I do, anyway. This is just a thread about one of those issues.

Good to know. You do realize your excluding with all these exceptions a great deal of the population. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion however wrong they may be.

[fit-fanatic-2025]

I'm sick and tired of people getting handicapped stickers for their cars just because they're obese and don't want to walk far when they park. If it were up to me, I'd make all of them park in the farthest spaces away so they could get more exercise. I'm also sick and tired of being smushed in airplane seats because people take up more than their assigned spaces.

It's not like you see tons of people getting 2 seats when you board an airplane. I doubt that happens a lot. I also think it's a small percentage of obese people that have handicapped stickers and if they do have them it's because they have other medical conditions that prevent them from walking far, not because they just don't want to walk far.

I disagree with that comment Bonnie said but I don't want to add anymore to that as well. And I'm tired of this thread as well. I think there is a lot more things to be upset about going on in the world than if severly obese people are able to have carts at a grocery store.

[Boss Man]

Addictions recondition the body and the way the body responds, to more frequent dosing of a stimulent or increased food consumption and are often reversible though depending on the severity of their effects, such effects re not alwyss partially or fully reversible themselves

Are you talking about drugs there not being always reversible? Or do you mean food too? Just a personal question nothing to do with our argument.

point was that when people eat more food or take more stimulents, the body adjusts accordingly, but then gains a craving for such things when they are dosed highly enough.

The resulting addiciton to things like food and stimulents is reversible, probably in 99% of all cases if not 100%, but in relation to the problems such addictions can cause, the effects enacted on the body itself, may be reversible, depending on what happens.

I.E if a person takes illegal drugs and is addicted after a few months, they will experience such things as shakes and sweats, when their body needs that , as it's the bodies way of trying to react to a physical outcome, it now perceives as normal, (getting that ), but it isn't getting.

In time the body can reverse this process, so it does not display any physical behaviour, typical of drug withdrawal, because it has been reconditioned not to need Illegal drugs or respond to them in the case of minor occasional replapses, that are not frequent enough to stimulate addiction.

Another example of minor stimulation not leading ot addicition, could be seen with something like Caffeinated Diet drinks. Drink one a day and the Caffeine will not be perceived by the body as a physical need, but drink 5 cans a day, dosing the Caffeine every 3 hours and then you may find addicition and related craving based on withdrawal, become inevitable.

However, getting back to drugs, reversal of physical behaviour and / or effects, would not be possible, if the drug use caused irreperable levels of something like liver damage.

In the case of people who binge or gorge on food and become morbidly obese, like say 200lbs overweight, they can recover and become people with healthier metabolisms and better physical functions and health, but they may not be able to reverse the problems with skin stretching, as well as someone that ends up say 60lbs overweight and would need medical intervention to correct any undesirable end results

Most toxicities and things relating to excessive daily consumption like protein, Metals, (dietary and heavy), fat soluable vitamins etc, can be overcome by reducing the problem, so the body can rid itself of the buildup, by the person not having a consumption level high enough to exacerbate or maintain buildup, but hopefully to create a nutritional deficeit below buildup maintenance, so the body has the ability to start ridding itself of the buildup that is causing side effects.

To resolve the issue of nutrient buildup causing side effects, I believe the person must consume an amount, that is not equal or greater to that ridden of within a 24 hour period. The same with fat buildup of the subcutaneous, arterial and viscerol kind. The individual must not incorporate factors into their daily life, that will create a maintenance or increasing of such fat buildup, which can be achieved by more sensible eating, not smoking and benficial exercise types.

So the point made was that addictions to substances and food can be reversible and eliminated, but their effects may not always naturally be reversible, depending on how severe.

In severe cases, mainly relating to substance addiction effects, where natural methods like abstinence won't work, the main way to reverse such things, is to employ surgical modalities, I.E. Heart and Liver transplants, Nephrectomy, (removal of part or all of a Kidney), Splenectomy, (removal of the spleen), etc etc.

However severe cases of food addition causing permanent problems, can be highlighted in something like the Gall Bladder, which if abused with excessive levels of negative food constituents, can cause for most people, a very painful scenario at some point, leading to removal of the Gall Bladder itself.

A relative of mine had such a problem and that was the only way.

Hopefully that more than clarifies the point .

[fit-fanatic-2025]

Another example of minor stimulation not leading ot addicition, could be seen with something like Caffeinated Diet drinks. Drink one a day and the Caffeine will not be perceived by the body as a physical need, but drink 5 cans a day, dosing the Caffeine every 3 hours and then you may find addicition and related craving based on withdrawal, become inevitable.

I read a about a study that came out recently on this same issue. Do you know if it is the same for regular soda??

So the point made was that addictions to substances and food can be reversible and eliminated, but their effects may not always naturally be reversible, depending on how severe.

This makes sense. Even people like myself that have been overweight and ate saturated fats and trans fats. Even if i lost weight now i will still have those fats in body that could lead to something like heart disease or congestive failure. uncle when he had bypass surgery i asked the surgeon about that, and he said it always stays with you even if you start eating healthy.

However severe cases of food addition causing permanent problems, can be highlighted in something like the Gall Bladder, which if abused with excessive levels of negative food constituents, can cause for most people, a very painful scenario at some point, leading to removal of the Gall Bladder itself.

No gall bladder doesn't sound like fun and painful. I don't know body parts very well, may have to google the gall bladder, I honestly can't think of what it is at the present moment.

Thanks Boss, it was helpful! I don't know if your in the medical field, but if your not, you might have missed your calling.

[fit-fanatic-2025]

The same with fat buildup of the subcutaneous, arterial and viscerol kind. The individual must not incorporate factors into their daily life, that will create a maintenance or increasing of such fat buildup, which can be achieved by more sensible eating, not smoking and benficial exercise types

I mentioned fat being non reversible i guess you mentioned that there as well.

[Boss Man]

Another example of minor stimulation not leading ot addicition, could be seen with something like Caffeinated Diet drinks. Drink one a day and the Caffeine will not be perceived by the body as a physical need, but drink 5 cans a day, dosing the Caffeine every 3 hours and then you may find addicition and related craving based on withdrawal, become inevitable.

I read a about a study that came out recently on this same issue. Do you know if it is the same for regular soda??

I would suspect so, owing to the Sugar. The body could quite easily become more addicted to heightened Sugar consumption.

As for being in the medical field, then no, far from it, but I am first aid qualified, but that's as medically qualified as I get. Though I am qualified in Maths and English too, both prerequesites for the medical profession so I believe .

As for the Gall Baldder, it sits just below the Liver and is used as a storage area for the Bile, which is created in the Liver partly from Cholesterol.

The Bile is used to help break down Fats and is then transported to the Duodenum, the upper part of the Intestines just below the very base of the Stomach, (Pyloric Valve).