MRI's CE2 HI-DEF and NO2 BLACK Stack

[Felix]

Before I get started with this thread, let me give you a background...

I had been out of the gym for about a year due to a pretty serious injury. During that time I gained quite a bit of (bad) weight. When I was finally able to start physical therapy, I did a lot of jogging, biking, and extensive use with the Total Gym machines (which by the way are absolutely awesome if you're not looking to gain mass). I was able to lose all that unwanted weight fairly quickly, but muscles had diminished as well. I've been fully healed for about 6 weeks now, and I have been back at the gym doing some real workouts to gain that muscle back. I was stunned by how much strength I had lost since returning to the gym. After first two weeks back, I decided to use the aid of supplements other than just protein, namely creatine. After doing some research, I decided to roll with the CE2 Hi-DEF creatine for two reasons:

1). It is a Creatine Ester, which may not induce as dramatic results as a monohydrate, but I personally cannot stand water retention.

2). Knowing that I was going to have to be stuffing face quite a bit more for added calories, the smaller the form factor for supplements, the better. CE2 creatine is in tablet form.

First thing I'll mention about the supplement is that it is not cheap. But I'm a pretty firm believer in the 'you get what you pay for' mantra and when you look at the science behind it, it's got some pretty cool stuff in it; Notably the raspberry ketone.

The first day I used it, I took 2 tablets when I woke up (about 30 mins. prior to breakfast to allow the tablets to absorb) and two more 30 mins. prior to workout. The first thing I noticed about the effects was that they weren't apparent before workout, which is a good thing. I had no jitters or Trevi-esque sweating unlike some other creatines I've used in the past. This did concern me a little because I wasn't sure if this meant it wasn't going to prove effective, but boy was I wrong. As soon as I completed first few sets, I was already feeling a pump. I ended up doing many more reps and slightly more weight than in previous weeks. I didn't want to stop, that's how good the pump was. In the days following it continued to get better and better and I could tell it was aiding body into an anabolic state. After about 2 weeks results were far better than I anticipated. Even though I looked leaner and trimmer, I had actually gained about 6 lbs. and people took notice. At the end of last week, and one month of the supplement, overall gain has been about 8 lbs. In those first two weeks of returning to the gym, I had maybe gained 1-2 lbs. with just protein. Now, this is not to say that any other creatine wouldn't have yielded the same results, but I haven't detected any water retention with CE2.

One thing I have to mention about this product is that recovery times are ridiculous. Unfortunately, your pump kinda goes away pretty quickly after a workout, but on the bright side, you feel like you hadn't even worked out the next day and can get right back into working out whatever it was you were working out. I haven't taken any CE2 this week, and I can sure tell the difference. reps are a little more strenuous and muscles are definitely a little sore.

Starting next week, I am going to start off anew with the CE2, but this time I'm using its partner in crime - NO2 Black.

NO2 BLACK is also a very expensive product, but again, the form factor and science makes it alright with me. If you buy into its claims, it gives your body a steady release of NO-promoting aminos throughout the day. If this is true, it receives a plus for the flexibility alone. I'm hoping that this will increase pump times and promote vascularity the way that NO is supposed to. I'll be doing this cycle for 1 month, and will be reporting results on this thread. It should be noted that I will also continue to use whey protein and ZMA, both of which I have been using since physical therapy. The ZMA was recommended by a therapist and I cannot say much on its effects, other than it puts me into a very deep sleep when I use it.

If you have any questions or input, please shoot away.

Wish me luck.

[Boss Man]

No, no Supplement companies get what YOU pay for. I.E. your money.

What you get is mildly accellerated results if that, that you can get using a Protein powder and more calories.

Plus you've bumped up calories, making it more difficult to ascertain what your new supplements will actually do to help you, in lieu of the increase being a potential growth factor.

You don't really need the NO2, regardless of what it claims to do. What science backs this up?

CEE was once touted as not being 100% safe, or bypassing Gut Enzymes, which means it could have the Esther, (a type of Fat), bond stripped off, and supposedly leave you with an in vivo substance, not much better than Monohydrate.

As CEE came out about a year after Kre-alkalyn, the rumour mill circulated the story, that this CEE bashing was done by some Kre-alkalyn manufacturer, but again, I saw no evidence to back this up, meaning it may or may not have been B.S.

That's not to say this story hasn't since been rebuffed or proven as truth.

Partner in crime is a good description of both. One (NO), isn't really neccessary, the other is probably better for those of a more chunkier and seasoned disposition, like semi-pro powerlifters / strongmen, or pretty solid amateur BB guys.

People with less bulk, will probably see poorer results, owing to having less strength, therefore less natural power to get an increase off.

I know, I used Monohydrate years ago, and naivity about what to expect, gave me results, that were about as much benefit as pissing in the wind frankly and being told you can suddenly hit a punch bag a bit harder, doesn't absolve you of the disspointment.

The hard and stone cold truth here is, stick to the Protein Powder and higher calories. If you start getting too attatched, to how some neither here nor there supplements make you feel, you will get the end results you seek, and keep on paying through the nose, convinced just using PP again, might see resuts disspear, or certain "feelings", not happen any more, and you'll be paying too much of your good money for years on stuff, to get results that people eating hard and using a Protein powder, can get as well.

If you were to test yourself against such a person with a similar height, weight and lifting ability to you, even if you and he wanted massive natural mass, you'd probably be lucky to get it even 6 months quicker than him, taking NO and CE2, then you'd keep paying for some kind of feeling(s) and / or psychological attatchment to your supplements.

I've reposted something about this recently. Just use the search facility and try looking for search words like vol-u-pump or spoof or "blade nutrition", something like that.

That should hopefully convince you not to keep pissing your money away, on expensive and often pointless, crap or at best mediocre supplements, based on hype, and possibly "deliberately" fudged science.

This public information message, was brought to you with good wishes, by the voice of reason .

[Felix]

Boss Man - I appreciate your input, though I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or pragmatic.

When researching supplements, you'll always notice in discussion forums an overwhelming amount of 'don't waste your money on this' , or, 'don't waste your money on that'. It's pretty annoying and aggravating to find an account of someone's experience with any given supplement, whether it be arginine, ZMA, or anything in between. Someone can even post a question like, 'Is it better to take creatine before or after workout'? The next several responses will just be about what a waste of money creatine is. It seems the popular trend is to jump all over these authors that are just trying to illicit some honest responses from people whom they feel would know about the subject matter. Is there a direct correlation between bodybuilding and financial advisory that I'm not aware of?

I realize that there are a lot of supplements out there that have little to no scientific support and probably are 'wastes of money'. I'll give you that. intent is to simply report on experiences with these two supplements in particular. If I'm not seeing results, I'll report it as such. Personally, I don't think that the creatine had a psychological or placebo effect in those first couple of weeks that I took it. I mean, I was making significant gains in strength and having decreases in recovery times. It's possible that the benefits may have or soon will reach their plateau. Either way, I'm still going to finish the cycle out, if for nothing more than being able to recover faster and provide a full cycle's worth of data. At this point, I don't plan on continuing these supplements beyond that. I was essentially looking for a springboard of sorts to get back into training hard and the CE2 has indeed helped with that.

As for the NO2, it is only second day of taking it and have no real opinion just yet. The pumps seem to have lasted longer, but I suppose it could be that I hadn't worked out in the 3 days prior to working out with the supplements. Prior to taking NO2, I consulted doctor to get his opinion and advice on supplementing with it. He didn't say in one way or another that it would or could yield results with hypertrophy. However, contrary to your thoughts, he explained that NO is extensively researched in the scientific community and that arginine supplementation is proven quite effective in several different circumstances to induce NO production. There are applications for infants born with pulmonary/vascular complications, those at risk for heart attacks, those that have nutrient insufficiencies, and those that just want to be able to 'keep it up' in bed.

I completely appreciate your opinions and if supplementation with these types of products has not proven successful for you, I'm sorry to hear that. Of course what works for one person may not work for another. As for myself, the CE2 has been fantastic and I have not had an inkling of buyer's remorse.

[Boss Man]

To be honest, I wasn't being sarcastic, I thought at first you were selling.

I appreciate what you're saying. I know about the Arginine, as to me, especially with Ketaglutarate forms, Arginine is probably a better things than NO, as Arginine has several functions, which of course NO doesn't.

The only real issue is if someone has a Herpes Virus, as Arginine can aggrevate it.

view on Creatine has never been it's crap and expensive, but it has been that Creatine probably works better for people with more strength and power, and it is often touted along with Steroids, as something that novice lifters think, is necessary to help them get more results, beyond the 3-6 month stage, because they are naive and don't realise it's probably diet and / or training problems, that need addressing instead.

Obviously these things work for you to some extent, but they can do nothing for others and you're right, that probably there is a messageboard culture of why did you use that?

However that will be peopels reaction, because sometimes people use stuff that isn't necessary, or is a waste of money, and any results they get might be down to something else, or not really that good, and some people will make the wrong assumptions about something they use.

So no sarcasm intended, I just thought you'd done something, without necessarily considering all the angles so to speak.

[Felix]

I guess maybe I did come off a bit salesman-ish. Believe me, MRI did not pay me for this contribution.

I completely agree with you about the novice mistakes. Usually it is just a diet or training issue that causes plateaus or lulls in progression. After I finish these products, I'm probably going to just stick to protein and go on a lighter regimen (less reps, more cardio) for a couple weeks and then up the intensity for another 3-4 (more weight, more sets). It seems the consensus of opinion (including mine) is that keeping your body guessing with these types of cycles/periodizations produce great results and prevent plateaus. What's your method?

I suppose at the point that I up the intensity once again I'll determine whether to cycle the creatine again or not. If I do, I can't imagine choosing anything other than what I'm using right now though.

Oh and the NO2 Black is not a nitric oxide compound, synthetic or otherwise. It's more like a precursor formula to induce increases in natural NO within the body. It's primary ingredient is about 3 grams of the arginine alpha-ketoglutarate that you speak of.

[Boss Man]

Yes, I've heard of those NO precursor things before, I think Nitrix is one such product, that is NO, but claims to induce it.