Workouts to supplement military physical training

[seawolf]

I'm in the US Navy and I'm in charge of a group of 60 Sailors going through their initial training after boot camp. About once to twice a week I lead them in military PT sessions which is entirely upper body, body weight exercises or runs (The others day I have PT leaders that lead them). The upper body days consist of various push ups and core exercises, and even though they are not part of the Navy's PT test, I make Sailors do a healthy amount of pull ups and chin ups as well.

Typically here is what I do in addition to the group PT:
1. Run (Either interval running or long distance jog with dogs)
2. Upper body day
3. Lower body day
4. Rest day and then repeat the cycle

The routine is not always exact as I have to fit the group PT and other things like 36 hour duty days in there, but I follow the above as close as possible.

I have 3 upper body workouts that consist of:
1. Dips / chin up pairing pyramid scheme.
2. Push ups (with push up bars) and dumbbell row pairing.
3. Dumbbell curl and diamond push up pairing.
4. Straight arm dumbbell side and front shoulder flys.
5. Finish up with knee push ups until I can't do anymore.

1. Barbell bench press and dumbbell lawnmower pairing.
2. Dumbbell curl and dumbbell tricep kickback pairing.
3. Dumbbell shoulder press.
4. Chin ups until I can't do any more.
5. Push ups until I can't do any more.

1. Push up (with push up bar) and wide grip pull up pairing.
2. Military push up (with push up bar) and chin up pairing.
3. Dumbbell curls and triceps (aka bench) dip pairing.
4. Dumbbell Y-Press
5. Side to side knee push ups until I can't do any more.
6. Pullups assisted by a chair until I can't do any more.

I have one basic lower body routine that consist of:
1. Barbell squats
2. Barbell deadlifts
3. Dumbbell calf raises (sometimes make it a 3 angle raise)
4. Dumbbell lunges (reverse step, side to side, front)
5. Dumbbell calf raise squats
6. 5 different core exercises (Crunches, oblique crunches, in and outs, gladiators, planx, bicycles, V-ups, curl ups ect..)

I track all workouts so I make sure to always lift more weight each workout or at least more reps, but I prefer to increase weight more than I would like to increase reps. rep range I shoot for is 6 to 10. Upper body tends to be lower in reps and lower body tends to be higher in reps when I actually workout, I don't know if that is normal or not. All bodyweight exercises I go for maximum reps. I usually do 2 or 3 sets of each exercise. I always do a warm up and stretch before each workout and a stretch after each workout. total time for each workout is between 45 minutes and 1 hour and 10 minutes. I eat healthy, minimal processed foods, lots of fruits and vegetables, almost no soda drinks, plenty of grilled chicken, lots of water, almost no sweets, and I drink a protein shake after each weight training workout.

Here are goals in order of importance:
1. Increase strength
2. Increase performance on Navy PT test (pushups, curl ups, and 1.5 mile run).
3. Increase size

Some questions I have before you guys point out problems with routine I don't even know I have:
1. Should compound exercises always be done first? I thought I read somewhere, possibly T-nation, that compound exercise are normally done first, but sometimes you need to switch it up so you're not always hitting chest and back first in your workout.
2. Is it a bad idea to do squats and deadlifts in the same workout? If so, should I have two routines, one with squats and the other with deadlifts?
3. Other than squats, dead lifts, and lunges, are then any other weight leg workouts than I am missing? leg routine seems kind of limited.
4. Should core exercise be paired with upper body work out instead of lower body, or should I do them with each?
5. Is there a considerable advantage into switching to a full body routine for the goals I have?

Thanks for any help you guys can give me.

[swanso5]

to make sure i'm following corrctly...

the program you've listed is your and you also actually perform the workouts with your navy crew?

maybe map out a week for me to get a better idea??

are you after a program for you, your crew or both?

http://www.uponlinetraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[seawolf]

To clarify what I wrote, the detailed upper and lower body workouts is what I do on own. I'm looking for advice to make those more effective. I workout with Navy crew about once to twice a week and that is a completely separate workout. Its either running or bodyweight upper body exercises. I make sure that if I workout with Sailors that its the only workout I do that day (if its not challenging me, then its probably not challenging them). I also plan workouts so that if I do upper body with Sailors one day, I don't do own upper body the following day. A typical 2 week period for me might look something like this:

Sunday - Run with dogs (about 3.5 miles)
Monday - Personal Upper Body
Tuesday - Personal Lower Body
Wednesday - Rest
Thursday - PT with Sailors Upper body
Friday - Personal Lower Body
Saturday - Interval run
Monday - Rest
Tuesday - PT with Sailors run
Wednesday - Personal Upper Body
Thursday - Personal Lower Body
Friday - Rest
Saturday - Run with dogs
Sunday - Personal Upper Body
Monday - Personal Lower Body

Although I am looking for advice just on WORKOUTS (myself and Sailors do very well on the Navy PT test), I am also open to suggestions to make group PT more effective. I guess that would be a separate thread that I can start later.

[swanso5]

you've got a bit of a conflict with your training it seems...

you have to train your crew i suppose but you also want to train yourself which is fair enough but they overlap a lot

1 - do the pt sailors train lower body? if not then why not?
2 - i assume your upper body sailor training involves a lot of push ups in which to keep muscle balance of the shoulder (which is probably already imbalanced to the max) then for your upper body daysd you'll want to stick a lot back work, ecspecially row variations...you might do some wted pull ups in there too but you probably also do them on your sailor days
3 - if i was you then i'd do the sailor workout then the next day do heavy legs/back work then take a day off before the enxt sailor workout or wts/sailors/off...depends how many times you do the sailors that week
4 - what do the other sialors do apart from your sessions? that will determine what you should do with them
5 - your first week is about what i'd do so 2 lower workouts and 1 upper workout in the gym then 1 sailor workout seems about right
6 - what is the goal of your sailor workouts?

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[seawolf]

To answer your questions in order:
1. Typically when group PT is done in the Navy we don't focus on lower body strength. There are a couple of reasons. First, it is not tested on the Navy PT test. Second, the PT is typically done in a big field where all we have is ourselves and maybe some pull up bars, so we are limited to body weight exercises. We usually incorporate lunges, squats, and maybe some plyometric exercises for our warm up, but I don't think you could call it enough to really build muscle. Three, I've tried working lower body moves in during PT in the past so it is a whole body workout, but I found that we couldn't really get an effective lower body workout from it. Finally, we under some strict guidelines as to when we can PT, which right now limits me from 0600 to 0645 in the morning to get the warm up, stretching, workout, and post workout stretching in. With the limited time I have for group PT, I focus in on what effects their career the most, which is the Navy PT test. I instruct all Sailors to workout on their own in addition to what we do and to ensure that they include weighted lower body workouts. I tell them reasoning is basically something like this, "When we PT as a group, we work on what most Sailors need help with, which is usually running and push ups. If you desire to work other areas, or your weakness is not in those areas, then you must work on them during individual PT. You should go to the gym and lift weights since we can't do it here as a group."

2. We do pull ups on group PT days, but usually not weighted. I like the row idea and I have a weight vest that I sometimes use for running that I can wear when I do pull ups on own. I'll have to shift to barbell rows as dumbbells don't seem to have enough weight on them for me to get a good row workout in.

3. Roger, sounds like a good idea. I'm thinking barbell squats, deadlifts, pull ups, chin ups, calf raises, and lunges. Should I include rows as well?

4. Everything or nothing, it really ranges. Some of the other staff don't even really workout at all, they hit it hard a month before our 6 month PT test and then stop. I find it extremely frustrating, but they can still pass the PT test. I just don't like the example that it sets. Others do split routines, usually two muscles a day. I've done splits before, like P90X, and if you keep up with them they seem to work, but I feel as though I get more strength results with upper/lower body compound dominant exercises. As for Sailors, they typically PT as a group 3 times a week, alternating between running and body weight strength training. They occasionally play sports as well. I would say the majority of them also PT on their own, but their workouts are varied.

6. Fairly well covered by #1.

[swanso5]

why is navy/army type testing so ordinary? they're protecting our country's with the most updated equipment but they;re physical requirements, which is really what you need in a life or death situation, is sub par at best

well for the group, i'd still pop in some lunges and pistol squats as strong legs will get you running better without even running where running won't get you strong legs by themselves

it seems pointless to warm up the legs when you don't really train them

for you, what i suggested above still stands and yes, definatly pop in rows..and lots of them

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[seawolf]

Couldn't answer why the PT test is the way it is. It's been like that well before I joined. I tried to add a local requirement for a pull up test as well, but it got shot down. Trust me though, trying to get things changed in a large government organization is nearly impossible. Could have a lot to do with the large amount of resources dedicated to our current test. We have an entire computer system that tracks everyone in the Navy and their PFA performance. It would cost a substantial amount of money to change every computer program, instruction, manual, and poster that we have to modify the PT test. Not to mention that the test is fairly basic already and we have hard enough time getting new Sailors in general to pass it. The condition that some of these keep come into the Navy as is quite disturbing. God help the USA if we have to draft people and get them into shape. I sometimes get people from boot camp that can't pass the PT test when they get here, which is really troubling. In the Navy, if you fail 3 tests in two years you are discharged, so some of these Sailors could get booted before ever going to a ship.

Pistols is something I hadn't really though about. I think I'll give it a shot with them. I may take a run day out and do plyometrics (jump training) with Sailors one day a week or every other week. I know that when I did plyo for P90X that it kicked , but I felt a lot better after a couple weeks. Its the only thing I can think of to add intensity to a lower body workout where I don't have access to weights. I can't say that it helped runtime, but I know it didn't make it any worse and I could tell me legs were getting stronger (not to mention extremely sore after the first couple times).

Thanks for the help.

[Packard]

I beleive that the military training is tested this way because it allows easy scoring of many individuals with minimal equipment.

Counting pushups and sit-ups is not equipment-intensive and neither is training for them. The same goes for running.

(The navy does recommend squats and lunges, however).

See: https://www.nrotc.navy.mil/doc/pre-conditioning.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[ProtoHype]

hey man, i was a PT lead in 1st Ranger Batt and let me tell you do the best training to do is Crossfit bottom line. Have them do Atomic Situps(full body situps) Air squats, anything you can have them do with NO rest and at the highest intensity. I know not all new salors will be able to do it but in about 6 weeks they will be beyond the standard.


I tell you this from experience



"Rangers Lead The Way"

[swanso5]

crossfit........oh no

[ProtoHype]

what was the oh no for? is crossfit not a good recomendation in you opinion

[swanso5]

not the biggest fan, no

- no progression
- no technique work
- has you working under fastigue with complex exercises = injury sooner rather then later
- induces fatigue but not much else

if getting better at something is simply about huffing and puffing and not being able to walk the next day then you'll struggle

[Packard]

I agree with Sanso on this point. I would not recommend cross fit training.


This from a Wiki "Criticism":

Criticism
This article's Criticism or Controversy section(s) may mean the article does not present a neutral point of view of the subject. It may be better to integrate the material in such sections into the article as a whole. (May 2009)


CrossFit has been criticized for its perceived "cult-like" mentality.[1][10] Some fitness professionals[2][11] and a senior officer who commands the U.S. Navy’s Center for Personal and Professional Development[12] believe CrossFit workouts are so intense that participants risk injury or even death from rhabdomyolysis. CrossFit has also been criticized for lax certification standards [1] and oversight of its affiliates. Everyone who pays $1,000 to attend a weekend seminar is certified as a CrossFit trainer; there are no pre-requisites or exams.[1] In October 2008, a Virginia jury awarded $300,000 in damages to a man disabled by a workout at a gym that had been CrossFit-affiliated, but was not affiliated at the time of the alleged injury. (The trainer was not certified by Crossfit and CrossFit was not named as a defendant.)[12] CrossFit subsequently announced formation of the affiliate-owned CrossFit Risk Retention Group to provide a form of self-insurance and vigorously defend any future lawsuits. CrossFit says its rate of rhabdomyolysis is a small fraction of the rate for many other sports or conventional police and military training. It says that there are actuarial studies proving that claim are forthcoming.

CrossFit responds to criticism that its program is too intense by citing an essential element of its methodology: workouts should always be individually scaled and varied. Critics fault CrossFit's high participant drop out rate (up to 80% at Glassman's Santa Cruz gym).[2] CrossFit responds that its high intensity and competitive atmosphere are not for everyone. CrossFit says the drop out rate is also high at conventional gyms — where many clients rely on machines, record few performance gains, and pay in advance for annual memberships they quickly abandon.
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Personally, any workout schedule that does not let you "measure" your progress is not suitable for long term training. The inability to "measure" your efforts means that you can train too hard too often and injure yourself, or worse, over-train.

A measured progress it needed for long-term fitness. For boot camp (which lasts 90 or 120 days, over training is less of a problem because the training largely ends at the end of boot camp).

[seawolf]

Not to mention that we don't have the facilities to use cross fit as a unit. Sure we have barbells, pull up bars, and punching bags, but not enough for 60 people, even if we had them cycle through exercises. The lack of measuring progress too is a huge problem. I'm all about variety and using muscle confusion to get results, but in opinion cross fit has so much variety that its loses effectiveness. If I can't tell if myself or Sailors are making progress, then I can't adjust routines to make them better. Even the fitness articles in military publications like navytimes and armytimes suggest modifying cross fit and using only if you are already in great shape looking for something different. Since I've never done cross fit, I can't really judge for myself if it works well in practice. From personal experience, I seem to get the best size and strength results from an upper body/lower body split routine that is dominated by compound movements. Hell, I saw the largest size and muscle gains in biceps from chin ups, not curls. I figure that if I keep it fairly simple, use isolation exercises to only work areas that I know are disproportionately weaker than others, and ensure that I work out hard enough that I need rest days, then body will take care of the rest.