Tim's Workout Log

Post your workout journals so others can review your training and follow your progress!

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swanso5
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Post by swanso5 »

tim - i've done it seemed alright but i only did one cycle of it..has plenty of merit though

vamp - 15 - 30 is too high...you'll lose all the strength you've just increased (use it or lose it principle)...it may activate more muscle fibres but they're the slow one's and the fast one's have more potential for growth so why not keep on focusing on them??
vamp
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Post by vamp »

True to a point but the increased strength allows for a higher weight in a higher rep range. Growth in strength is not the same in the mirror as growth in muscle. High weight, low rep is strength which will increase size but at a slower rate than lower weight and higher reps which will increase size at a faster rate. By cycling between the two it should take longer to plateau and keep the gains on an increase with both size and strength.
swanso5
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Post by swanso5 »

why would 10 x 3 be a slower muscle builde then 3 x 10? it's the same volume....
vamp
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Post by vamp »

so by what you're saying 10x3 and 3x10 is the same volume therefore build the same and thus 1x30 or 2x15 is the same as well because its the same volume. You've just contradicted yourself swanso with that statement to what you preach to people about lifting heavy.

Rep/set setup greatly changes how your muscles adapt and grow due to the amount of muscle fiber and what muscle fiber you challenge. Speed also has an affect on this as well. For example, I dare you to do your 3x10 weight one workout at an up/down pace then the next time you do it, try doing it at a up,2,3,4,5/Down,2,3,4,5 pace. It is way harder to accomplish your sets and you'll pound 10x more muscle fiber. Its the same volume but it is not the same intensity which changes how you're body with react and adapt.

Volume is not the only key to building strength or size. Strength is not the only motivator for people in this sport either. Ie, power lifter, body sculpting, and body building. For each of these you lift different to acheive the results you desire. Preaching only strength building neglects what people are trying to acheive for personal goals and only has them working towards the goal you're dictating to them which is strength building.

I agree strength is important but is not the only reason to workout with weights.

As always these are opinions and Swanso I may sound like I'm attacking you but I am not intending to. I'm just trying to add and build to the convo so others may see a bigger, broader picture.

Cheers
swanso5
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Post by swanso5 »

i asked a question, can't contradict myself with a question...

lets look at this...if your max is 100kgs for deadlifts

10 x 3 at 5rm will be about 85%/85kgs let's say

10 x 3 = 30 total reps

30 x 85 = 2550 total kgs lifted

do this for 3 x 10 @ 70% / 70kgs and you get:

30 x 70 = 2100 total kgs lifted

hmmm.....

fast muscle fibres have more growth potential...10 x 3 recrutis these...3 x 10 recruits slow fibres so no good there either

time under tension does come into it but not as much as you think...if you do a set of 10 with a that "2, 3, 4, 5" tempo you'll take 5 - 7secs per rep putting you at 70secs per set which will have you using even less wt then 70%

and as stated yes, you'll hit more fibres but they're the slow, low growth potential one's and also the one;s that aren't "functional" (i.e. don't make you stronger)

if you canget big and strong at the same time you're foolish not to do so...heavier wts means even more growth potential too

if you do enough consistent strength focused training, you'll have plenty of muscle to go around...look at wt lifters..they do 3 rep sets at most and they have plenty of muscle, D will tell you that




so by what you're saying 10x3 and 3x10 is the same volume therefore build the same and thus 1x30 or 2x15 is the same as well because its the same volume. You've just contradicted yourself swanso with that statement to what you preach to people about lifting heavy.

Rep/set setup greatly changes how your muscles adapt and grow due to the amount of muscle fiber and what muscle fiber you challenge. Speed also has an affect on this as well. For example, I dare you to do your 3x10 weight one workout at an up/down pace then the next time you do it, try doing it at a up,2,3,4,5/Down,2,3,4,5 pace. It is way harder to accomplish your sets and you'll pound 10x more muscle fiber. Its the same volume but it is not the same intensity which changes how you're body with react and adapt.

Volume is not the only key to building strength or size. Strength is not the only motivator for people in this sport either. Ie, power lifter, body sculpting, and body building. For each of these you lift different to acheive the results you desire. Preaching only strength building neglects what people are trying to acheive for personal goals and only has them working towards the goal you're dictating to them which is strength building.

I agree strength is important but is not the only reason to workout with weights.

As always these are opinions and Swanso I may sound like I'm attacking you but I am not intending to. I'm just trying to add and build to the convo so others may see a bigger, broader picture.
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Post by vamp »

so by building fast twitch muscle only to get stronger and bigger is the best way to go?

What about endurance?

Great you can lift 300 lbs once but you mind working all day in the steel mill and lifting 1-200 lbs for an hour or two at a time. Hey lets go stack wood all day. Lets carry the kid around the house for the day or in the super market.

Lets face it, everyday life as we know it requires our slow twitch muscle, so why not make the effort to train this as well? By alternating between training fast and slow twitch muscle you "cross-train" and overall strength and endurance increase. Month to month losses in strength of 20 lbs give or take is a drop in the hat over the long term of the rest of your life. This is not a quick go gungho outa the gate and stop when you injure yourself or burn out.

By changing your lifts and routines this way you keep your mind and body adapting. Looking at a short term it looks like you spike in strength and then drop and boo hoo Its gone. Over the long term it looks more progressive and steady for stregth and endurance gains. Not only that if you do 4 weeks on one and 4 weeks on the other the losses are minimal and fairly quick to return and the benifits are worth it.

As for potential growth in slow vs fast twitch I think you are wrong. Its the shape of the growth that is different. Fast twitch fibers are short and fat so show thickening a little faster than slow twitch which are long and thin. You recruit more fibers when slow than fast. Seems to equill out a bit there as well.

Muscle endurance is as important as muscle strength. Ignoring one over the other seems to set you into sport specific training rather than overall health training. Besides if you put your muscles under load for a longer time then you would be potentially burning more calories also.
swanso5
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Post by swanso5 »

ah, what about endurance? as you've stated in another post i'm sure, simply increasing strength will concurrently increase endurance without even training it

what you've described there is strength endurance...you still need to the strength to lift the 200pds once before you can do it for an hour

i can assure you, i am not wrong about the fast fibre with more growth potential thing, it's scientifically backed mate...again it;s not how many fibres you can recruit, it's the quality of those fibres you recruit

potentially burn more cal's? maybe...i'm pretty sure a set of 3 power cleans performed at your heaviest wt as quick as you can will be a little harder then a drop set of bicep curls performed with a 555 tempo
Last edited by swanso5 on Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
vamp
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Post by vamp »

[quote="swanso5"]

potentially burn more cal's? maybe...i'm pretty sure a set of 3 power cleans performed at your heaviest wt as quick as you can will be a little harder then a drop set of bicep curls performed with a 555 tempo
[quote]

ok cleans vs curls lol

3 poswer cleans at high weight vs 10 power cleans at a lower weight is a better comparison amd who's said anything about drop sets?

Without training something you won't adapt to it. So endurance of the muscle with increase but the rest of the system won't ie heart and lungs. The key to the entire conversation that began this is switching things up and getting the body to adapt to more and different things.

Why are you so closed minded on other avenues of training and varitations of training (cross training) such as lower weight/higher reps. These have benifits that you seem to ignore and call shit and not worth time. Every body adapts to training differently and what's good for one may not be good for another. You preach the same for everyone and that's it. Fall into line or get lost type attitude. People also need to find something they like as well or it will never become a good habit for their health.
timtimtimmah19
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Post by timtimtimmah19 »

So I'm planning on keeping up with the 3x12 waterbury program I'm on right now for a couple more weeks, but I just got the suggested winter workout for football from the college trainer. I was wondering what you guys think, initial concern is the lack of real core abdominal exercises and some isolation exercises in there. It also seems like a lot to be doing all in one day each day. I'm thinking of maybe splitting it up into two uppers/two lowers and two running days. Tell me what you all think:

-Monday
-Squat 10/8/6/4
-Romanian Deadlifts 4x6 /Incline Dumbbell Press 4x8 (Superset)
-Power Step Ups 6 per leg (25 lb dumbbells)/Dumbbell Rows 10 per arm 4 sets (Superset)
-Lateral Slide Lunge 8 per leg/Curl Press 4x8 (superset)
-Toe touches/Alternating Pikes/Berry Pickers/Suitcases (abs)
-Agility Training

-Tuesday-Rest

-Wednesday
-Bench Press 10/8/6/4
-Lat Pulldown 4x10/Leg Curls 4x8 (superset)
-Cuban Press 4x8/Walking Lunge 12 per side (superset)
-Tricep Kickbacks 8 per side/Lateral band steps 6 per side (superset)
-Choice of ab exercises
-Agility

-Thursday-Rest

-Friday
-Dumbbell Snatch 4x6 /Box Jumps 4x5 (superset)
-Box Push Ups 8/10/fail/Medicine BAll Jump squat 3x8 (superset)
-Machine Rows 3x10/Spassov Squat 6 per side (superset)
-Reverse Flys 3x8/Reverse Curls 3x10 (superset)
-Agility Work
swanso5
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Post by swanso5 »

vamp - your heart works exactly the same no matter what activity you do...the effort it has to work at alters depending on activity intensity, regardless of the activity

vampy i know what works and what doesn't...i've been there and done that, you might not like it but that';s yours...yes they have benefits but you can the same benefots from doing more effective exercise, peope don;t train every day like they should so when they do they need to make it count and more so why instead of concentrating on getting nice arms, worrying about what sets do what most simply need to just get their arse in the gym and do what needs to be done, not what they want

yes i do preach the same for everyone but i preach the principles which are always remain the same


tim - what's the 3 x 12 waterbury program???
- what's the goal of the college program?
- are power step ups plyometric where tou actually jump off the bench? if so i wouldn't be using wt and not 25pds either...rather a wt vest but way lighter
- plyo work also needs to be done first (train explosiveness then power then strength then hypertrophy then endurance in a given training session
- agility training also needs to be done before wts i'd say in a seperate session with 4 - 6hrs rest in btw
- do pull ups if you can instead of pulldowns
- glute ham raises instead of leg curls
- kickbacks??? wtf????
- lateral band side steps should be used as aglute activation exercise beofree squats or deadlifts...there's no use activating a muscle and then not strengthening it
- spassov squat???
- face pulls instead of reverse fly
- what phase of the season is this for too?
timtimtimmah19
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Post by timtimtimmah19 »

-The waterbury program is simply the fast lifting article. Since I'm using higher reps I'm using a 3x12 (ideally) setup for lifts to hit at least 35 reps as he suggests.

-I'm frankly not sure about the goal of the program, the coach just said to get in shape, and I'm free to do whatever I want instead if I choose. I assume it's to lay a foundation and start to build some strength for the team lifts coming up.
-I don't think i'm supposed to get air, but I think i just go up until toes are the only part of foot touching the bench.
-This was one of concerns. I also didn't like pairing box jumps with snatches, or doing six reps of snatches.
-Good idea, I'll do them in the morning
-Will do
-Will do
-It's when you hold a weight and are in row position, except instead of doing a row you have your upper arm parallel to your body and extend until your whole arm is...this is basically a tricep iso lift, which i'm not crazy about and am thinking of subbing close grip bench or diamonds for
-I don't have bands, but when I get them I'll do that
-Yeah i had to look it up, but apparantly it's where you hold weights in the hand with a foot on the bench and go up and down without removing the foot, so basically a different form of step up
-Will do
-This is just for the winter and the season is next fall, season beginning early september
timtimtimmah19
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Post by timtimtimmah19 »

I've gotten to the point in health where I'm able to start the lifting program I'm supposed to be doing over break for football. As far as the Waterbury Program I was just on, I would definitely suggest it, I feel great, I've gotten healthy and recovered, and have even gone into this new program stronger than I've ever been.

The one thing I'd like to explain is that due to back injury, I haven't been able to do heavy leg lifting for nearly six months now. I'm getting back into it slowly, which is why those numbers will be down.

Jan-6

Bench Press- 185x8 195x6 205x5 215x4 225x3 (thrilled about 225, has been a goal of mine to get as 1RM for a long time)

Lat Pulldowns (No pullup bar)- 150x8 (4 sets)
----superset-------
Lying Leg Curl- 80x10 (4 sets)

Cuban Press (First time doing these ever)- 45x10 (4 sets)
-----superset----
Lateral Band Steps- 4 sets, 20 yards

Skull Crushers- 30x10 (4 sets)
-----supersets----
Lunges-45x8 (4 sets)

Swiss Ball Alternating Step-Offs-10 per side (4 sets)
Plank with feet on ball-1:00 (4 sets)
timtimtimmah19
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Post by timtimtimmah19 »

1/8

Dumbbell Snatch-Limited by the equipment I have as it only goes up to 45 lb in dumbbells. 45x5 (4 sets)
----superset-----
Box Jumps-5 (4 sets)

Box Pushups- 12 12 20
----------------
Medicine Ball Squat Jump- 11x10 (3 sets)

Rows 140x6 (3 sets)
------------
Spassov Squats 30x5 35x5 40x5

Face Pull- 50x10 55x10 55x10
------------
Reverse Curl- 45x12 55x12 65x12

Ball Rollouts- 10 10 10 10
Baseballkid14
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Post by Baseballkid14 »

I wouldn't try to get your body fat any lower. Your entering a dangerous zone.
timtimtimmah19
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Post by timtimtimmah19 »

So the team workout routine looks like this:

Tuesday (6:30 PM)
-Squat 5x5

-Romanian DL 4x5
-Wrist Rollers 2 ups and downs

-Walking Lunges
-Reverse Curls

-Leg exercise (can't remember)
-Plate Holds

-Bicycles, russian twists, alternating pikes

Thursday (7:00 AM)
-Bench Press 5x5

-Incline Bench 4x8
-Sit-Ups 4 sets

-Low Grip Row 2x8
-Lat Pulldown 2x8
-Russian Twists 4 sets

-Curl Press 4x8
-Sit-Ups 45 degree hold on ball 4 sets :30

Friday (Drift lift-come in whenever)
-"Bear Jumps" (squat jumps) 5x5

-Step Ups
-Military Press

-Lateral Band Steps
-Dumbbell Rows

-Back Extensions
-Lying tricep extensions

-Planks

I was thinking of adding another day in on Sunday to hit some of the big lifts I'm missing on the other days. Here's what I'm thinking:

Sunday
-Power Clean 5x3

-Deadlift 5x5

-Dumbbell Bench Press 4x6
-Pallof Press 4x10

-Face Pull 4x10
-Landmine 4x6
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