Whats better Chin ups or Pull downs
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Whats better Chin ups or Pull downs
Read the other day that chin ups are better as you can lift more have better form and less strain. Waht would you guys say. I can lift about the same for each by holding a dumbell with legs. Around 200 each (for narrow grip). Which would you say is better chins or pull downs.
Chins definitely.
Pull-downs are unnatural. Theres two reasons for this, and two ways to do Pull-downs.
1. You could tip your Head forwards, straining the Upper Vertebrae in your Spine, then exert stress and forces near the aforementioned area.
2. You could put your Arms up perpendicular, like on Shoulder Presses, but you'd hit yourself on the Head with the Bar, so if you don't tip the Head forwards, you have to pull the Arms and Shoulders, slightly further back, so instead of looking like this | they look more like this /.
If you do that now sitting at your computer, just raise your Arms up dead straight, then stretch the Shoulders back about a 1/2 inch, you'll probably feel the Delts, Rotator Cuff and joint area, straining a bit. That shouldn't feel right.
If you then just do some Pull-downs maybe 4-6 unweighted ones, sitting in your Chair, keeping the Shoulders in that forced position, you'll feel a slight strain afterwards, or some kind of stiffening feeling.
You'll be fine, but it will emphasise the point.
Pull-ups, are unnatural too, as you need to move your Head a bit forwards, to stop hitting it on the Bar, or Framework, but due to the useage of Bodyweight it shouldn't get you as hard.
Your body if your bf% is quite good, should weigh I think about 50-60% of the weight, you would use on a Pull-down machine.
I would also say Behind The Neck Presses are also unnatural, for the same reasons. I've tried them before, and disliked the way they made me feel, kind of a bit stif and knotted for a while.
Many big guys will probably say, hay I've never had a problem, but they could be in the first stages of Bone degeneration, or using Steroids, and can't feel it.
You have to remember that doing anything, that depreciates the quality of Bones, Connective Muscle Tissue etc etc, won't make you feel 20 years older, in a couple of months, but when you're 45, 50 say, you might feel it then, after 20-25 years of degrading those physical structures regularly.
Pull-downs are unnatural. Theres two reasons for this, and two ways to do Pull-downs.
1. You could tip your Head forwards, straining the Upper Vertebrae in your Spine, then exert stress and forces near the aforementioned area.
2. You could put your Arms up perpendicular, like on Shoulder Presses, but you'd hit yourself on the Head with the Bar, so if you don't tip the Head forwards, you have to pull the Arms and Shoulders, slightly further back, so instead of looking like this | they look more like this /.
If you do that now sitting at your computer, just raise your Arms up dead straight, then stretch the Shoulders back about a 1/2 inch, you'll probably feel the Delts, Rotator Cuff and joint area, straining a bit. That shouldn't feel right.
If you then just do some Pull-downs maybe 4-6 unweighted ones, sitting in your Chair, keeping the Shoulders in that forced position, you'll feel a slight strain afterwards, or some kind of stiffening feeling.
You'll be fine, but it will emphasise the point.
Pull-ups, are unnatural too, as you need to move your Head a bit forwards, to stop hitting it on the Bar, or Framework, but due to the useage of Bodyweight it shouldn't get you as hard.
Your body if your bf% is quite good, should weigh I think about 50-60% of the weight, you would use on a Pull-down machine.
I would also say Behind The Neck Presses are also unnatural, for the same reasons. I've tried them before, and disliked the way they made me feel, kind of a bit stif and knotted for a while.
Many big guys will probably say, hay I've never had a problem, but they could be in the first stages of Bone degeneration, or using Steroids, and can't feel it.
You have to remember that doing anything, that depreciates the quality of Bones, Connective Muscle Tissue etc etc, won't make you feel 20 years older, in a couple of months, but when you're 45, 50 say, you might feel it then, after 20-25 years of degrading those physical structures regularly.
Ya true about the imablance but that was almost happening anyway with pull downs.
As for your 50 to 60% wow. I thought doing around 215 was good and I weigh 155 so thats 75%ish. You can pull down double your body weight?
And for pull downs I never do behind the back so is there the same strain if your leaning slightly back?
Also its weird... right side looks stronger but I can do 1 handed left hand chin ups much easier thanright handed ones...
As for your 50 to 60% wow. I thought doing around 215 was good and I weigh 155 so thats 75%ish. You can pull down double your body weight?
And for pull downs I never do behind the back so is there the same strain if your leaning slightly back?
Also its weird... right side looks stronger but I can do 1 handed left hand chin ups much easier thanright handed ones...
form wise you want to make sure that your head stays in between your arms so no leaning back for extra momentum for the sake of using more wt...i train on the opull up bars that have the middle part cut out such as the top of an assited dip machine etc so i don't have to worry about the head tilt thing but by raising the chest to the bar which you should be doing anyway will warrant some head tilt anyway and i don't see a problem with that...if your getting injured from head tilting you have a bigger underlying probalem
No dude the 50%-60% was an estimate.
I have done both before, and I was using about 45kg's on Pull-downs, more than on Pull-ups, (bodyweight).
Must be about 3-4 years since I did Pull-downs.
So I'm only going by own lifting levels and weight. For some people the difference between what they weigh, and what they use on Pull-downs, may only be 30% or 20%.
I have done both before, and I was using about 45kg's on Pull-downs, more than on Pull-ups, (bodyweight).
Must be about 3-4 years since I did Pull-downs.
So I'm only going by own lifting levels and weight. For some people the difference between what they weigh, and what they use on Pull-downs, may only be 30% or 20%.
Oh ok you shocked me for a second there, cause if I was doing that I'd be chinning/ pulling down 300 pounds. As for form I try to keep back pretty straight on the pull downs and on chins I do... well I cant remember the names for each but the one with your hands wide spread and palms facing forward and the ones where your arms are closer together holding 2 bars and your arms perpendicular to your body(do much more of these).
Military Press is where you use something like a Smith Machine Bar, and you hold it in a pronated vertical grip, and then pull the Bar down about just below the Chin.
It's the opposite kind of, to Behind The Neck Presses, (that I frown upon as you know).
With Militaries, the grip is still Pronated, as the Palms never face the Torso, during any part of the movement.
What you said with Arms closer together, holding two Bars, sounds like a possible form of Military Press, but could be Shoulder Presses, it depends how close together the Arms are, because even doing Shoulder Presses, you keep them closer together, than you do on Pull-ups.
It's the opposite kind of, to Behind The Neck Presses, (that I frown upon as you know).
With Militaries, the grip is still Pronated, as the Palms never face the Torso, during any part of the movement.
What you said with Arms closer together, holding two Bars, sounds like a possible form of Military Press, but could be Shoulder Presses, it depends how close together the Arms are, because even doing Shoulder Presses, you keep them closer together, than you do on Pull-ups.
Hmm I have no clue what your talking about with the military press. Pull a smith machine down? Wouldnt be any resistance so obviously I'm misunderstanding you. By that do you mean just using a straight bar?
K I'll try again to describe.... k so theres the bar and 2 poles sticking out attached to it like this I=. I'm in between the 2 bars(of the equal sign) closing hands around each, palms facing each other, so arms are perpendicular to the body (which is facing the main bar). I lift myself up between them.
I dont like grips with palms facing me too much stress on the wrists.
And whats the benefit of a pronated grip?
K I'll try again to describe.... k so theres the bar and 2 poles sticking out attached to it like this I=. I'm in between the 2 bars(of the equal sign) closing hands around each, palms facing each other, so arms are perpendicular to the body (which is facing the main bar). I lift myself up between them.
I dont like grips with palms facing me too much stress on the wrists.
And whats the benefit of a pronated grip?
wide grip with palms facing away from you - pull ups using lats, rhomboids moslty
close grip with palms facing you - chin ups using lats, biceps mostly
close grip with palms facing each other - probably more of a chin up using more forearm and bi's than chins maybe depending on how strong you are
mix the grips arouns regularly anyway so that you don't comtinually train the same set of motor units which can lead to burning them out/overtraining
close grip with palms facing you - chin ups using lats, biceps mostly
close grip with palms facing each other - probably more of a chin up using more forearm and bi's than chins maybe depending on how strong you are
mix the grips arouns regularly anyway so that you don't comtinually train the same set of motor units which can lead to burning them out/overtraining
I'll explain.brad_69 wrote:Hmm I have no clue what your talking about with the military press. Pull a smith machine down? Wouldnt be any resistance so obviously I'm misunderstanding you. By that do you mean just using a straight bar?
In example of Military Press, you sit upright on a Seat / Bench, and sit below a Smith Machine.
The Bar on the Machine, would be above your head, and then you use a Pronated Grip, Palms facing the Ceiling, Arms roughly about shoulder width apart.
You pull the Bar down, just below the Chin, then push it back up until you almost lock out the Arms, then repeat for reps.
The seat positioning means you should almost have the Arms dead straight. The closer the Bar comes to you Nose, on the way down the better.
If you're doing Militaries everything. You could try using a Supinated Grip, but on Military Press, you probably would have to bend the Wrists back further than is possible, and you almost certainly couldn't do Military Presses, with a Supinated Grip. It has to be Pronated.brad_69 wrote:And whats the benefit of a pronated grip?
K I get what your talking about with military press but thats something completely different which is why I didn't catch on. I'm talking about lat/bicep work outs military/shoulder press is more for shoulders is it not?
As for pronated grip I got it mixed up with the other grip in which the hands face different directions, now I understand that too.
As for pronated grip I got it mixed up with the other grip in which the hands face different directions, now I understand that too.