New 3 day spit, advice and comments please

Scottarchaeology · Post by **Scottarchaeology** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:43 am

Hi folks, this is first post and I want hear what people think of current workout plan.

Aim: To bulk up to, say, 85-90kg and get BF% down to <10%, just look nice and lean and not too bulky.

Background: I am 23, 6'2", 78kg. I estimate BF% to be <15% based on a 20% reading about 3 months ago. I eat a diet I guess made up of 30% carbs, 45% protein and 25% fat. I have been workin out properly about 6 months and have made considerable gains. Fist I did whole body 3 x PW then switched to upper and lower body splits 3 x pw. I'm not sure I was overtraining as I have got good results but these took up to 1.5h to complete.

I have only just started a 3 day split and have these done in <1h. There is one excercise for each muscle group and I try to include compound/body weght moves as often as I can and vary the excercises for each body part.

Mon: upper chest, middle chest, lower chest, anterior deltoid, medial deltoid medial head tricep, lateral head tricep and long head tricep.

Wed: lats, posterior deltoid, inner bicep head, outer bicep head, traps, forearms, transverse abs and obliques.

Fri: quads, hams, glutes, calves, core (rotational), upper abdominals, lower abdominals and erctor spinae.

Supplements: casein/whey protein powder 3 scoops throughout the day, creatine 5g (cycled) and 3 x 1g cod liver oil.

I hope this is not TOO much information. Any advice, improvments, problems? Will this get me to goal? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

swanso5 · Post by **swanso5** » Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:13 pm

- 90min sessions are too long
- 60mins max is what tyou should aim for each session
- with full body programs you don;t need to directly train every muscle because if your using the correct exercises you'll hit a lot of muscles with each exercise
- don;t train every paet of the chest...a bench press will train all these areas at once so doing others is overkill and will lead to overtraining
- i don;t think you need creatine yet
- did you want to train 3 or 4 times a week???

Scottarchaeology · Post by **Scottarchaeology** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 5:14 am

Yeah, I realised that 90 mins was no good so I knocked that on the head. With regards training every muscle, I use a variety of compounds and isolations and work in the 8-10 or 12-15 rep range and this is changed every workout. As for chest, you have a point, but again I only do 3 sets for each part and usually do a bench, a fly and a press up type movment, one decline, one flat and one incline which is always mixed up every workout. Is this really so bad once pw given it is not always 100% intensity? With regards the creatine, I only use it because I was given it, will it do any harm or is it just a waste of money? This is a 3 day per week setup.

swanso5 · Post by **swanso5** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:17 am

- i'd give away the isolation exercises with full body workouts, they're no good anyway
- drop some exercises (squats, deadlifts, benches) down to 6 - 8 reps too i think
- you can do it for chest but you need to do the exact if not more sets and reps for back as well, and rowing type movements at that not pulldwns, chins etc
- i'd save the creatine for now
- if it's not 100% int than why do it??? you'll only get bigger and stronger by exposing your muscles to more work, wt etc eover time so by training it with less wt than your actually capable of, you CAN eventually lose muscle from it

Scottarchaeology · Post by **Scottarchaeology** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:44 pm

Ignore what I said about 100% I explained it wrong. I do work at 100% just different ways through rep ranges or movment type. 3 sets of 3 excercises in the 6-8 would kill me where as one at 6-8, one at 8-12 and one at body resistance to failure (ie. chest and triceps) does not yet still gives me many ways to target muscles.

I am with you on the isolation, where I can change an excercise I will but probably, biceps and triceps are the only muscles which get any regular isolation moves.

I am a big fan of the bent over row and other rows and always include some kind of row for lats and posterior deltoid, somtimes reverse flys as well. I find press ups, done strictly do wonders for the stabilisers of the upper back and allow me to row with better form and more weight also.

The problem I have with legs is that I am a cyclist and as such they are incredibly strong, far, far stronger than grip is on weights heavy enough to give me 6-8 reps. Also, squats with too much weight be dangerous as I train at home.

Cheers for this Swanso5, you are really giving me a lot to think about!

swanso5 · Post by **swanso5** » Mon Oct 08, 2007 6:25 pm

if doing full body then have 1 focus lift for the day which you'll perform in the 6 - 8 rep range or even 4 - 6 rep range so you'll do 3 for the week doing 1m session and then the rest as normal...

try snatch grip deadlifts from a platform and focus on lifting through the hips / glutes and not the quads and limit all quad work if they are already strong

Scottarchaeology · Post by **Scottarchaeology** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 3:42 am

Thanks for that, I'll work on some low rep compounds then, probably rows, benches and deadlifts I'd say. Also, is there some sort of simple test to see if I have an imbalance between glutes and quads? Any other muscle groups like back/chest, biceps/triceps while we're at it?

I know quads are the workhorse of cycling but when a serious burst of power and speed are needed you tend to stand and cycle and this really works the hams and glutes but in a very different way ie fast vs slow twitch I believe. I feel this may prduce somthing unusual in legs as its all endurance on the front and explosive on the back.

swanso5 · Post by **swanso5** » Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:28 am

there is numerous test for hams and quads but most involve isolation exercises so will test the actual muscles but i'd be more interested in testing movements...maybe a front squat (quads) vs snatch grip deadlift (hams/glutes) looking for at least a 1:1 ratio...if your a cyclist than you definately will have though and probably won;t even need to test as the thighs may do the work for the hams and glutes without yoy even knowing it...

for chest and back test bench press and chest supported row...

arms don't really matter as you can tell by looking at tyhem...if tri's are lacking than you'll have an imbalance without even testing strength levels...

the mechanical positioning of the body on the pedals detirmines the use of muscles...i don't think that use of hams ans glutes are increased that much more as yout still in limited hip extension where you're leg needs to extend back behind you but won't when cycling as it's fixed to the pedal...

hams are naturally explosive so don't change that...quads will be more endurance based for you as that's the way they're used for 905 of your riding...a muscle will take on the characteristics in which it is used or trained

Scottarchaeology · Post by **Scottarchaeology** » Tue Oct 23, 2007 11:17 am

Sorry about the late reply, I have been on holiday. Thanks for all your help Swanso5. I have taken on much of what you said, it was a great help. I noticed that you feature on most threads so I will speak to you again soon I'm sure. As for imbalances, I guess I will just have to fiddle with workout until it begins to correct itself (as you pointed out, as a cyclist this will be dificult). Cheerse bud, Scott